can we talk about chappell roan on call her daddy

a "shift" in the "culture"

Oh, how I long for the days of true Music Television. For so many reasons. I miss getting ready for the day without having to think of what to listen to, when it was someone’s job to play blocks of music videos on MTV, rotating between the coolest new songs and old favorites, as opposed to letting AI shuffle songs I saved to my Spotify library for a “daylist” that is rarely what I actually am in the mood to listen to and uses the cringiest buzzwords for the titles and “vibe” descriptors.

More than that, I miss actual music journalism. People who studied music, whether professionally or personally, interviewing musicians and asking smart questions. We still have Nardwuar, thank god¹, but I am so tired of watching some of today’s most interesting musicians answer boring questions from someone who has little to no music knowledge. I’m not the only person who is upset about this marked shift in music and pop culture coverage as a whole. CT Jones wrote an excellent op-ed about this very topic for Rolling Stone earlier this month that perfectly encapsulated so many of my own thoughts and feelings about influencers becoming interviewers, especially in these two sentences: “Pushing untrained creators out onto the red carpet in the hopes of virality is making a bleak media landscape even worse. Just because you give someone a microphone, it doesn’t make them a journalist — and it most certainly doesn’t guarantee a good interview.”

Chappell Roan is an enigma. She is one of the most unique, promising young musicians to come around in a long, long time. She has a deep understanding of (and love for) music and how to make it. Her influence reaches across generations, earning her the admiration of legends like Elton John; with infamous musicians like Rick Astley and Weird Al Yankovic performing covers of her songs. And beyond her musical talent, the impact she’s had on pop culture as a whole is magnanimous–she’s breaking boundaries by being a massive lesbian pop star. You might be tired of hearing about that, but it’s simply the fucking truth. It is a huge deal that someone as globally successful as her is openly, visibly, unabashedly queer. With all that being said, there are so many interesting things to ask an artist like her if you have the opportunity to interview her. So why the fuck am I watching Alex Cooper ask her if she wears sweatpants?

If I’m playing devil’s advocate, I could argue that in the early aughts, fluffy interview questions were asked of interesting musicians in media geared towards children, like teen magazines or the green carpet at the Kid’s Choice Awards. But at best, those kinds of interviews would be one glossy page in a magazine or 5 minutes on camera–not an hour and a half long.

So many questions and thoughts ran through my head as I pushed through an hour and a half workout at the gym watching Chappell’s CHD interview: about who this interview was for and whose idea it was, the ways Chappell has crossed over cultures to be in this room, what that means about the current state of our country and economy (because there is correlation!) but mostly I was thinking that I don’t need to listen to Alex Cooper talk about her Porsche Cayenne when she’s in the unique position of interviewing one of the most emblematic artists of our time.

I don’t know when our culture as consumers shifted to video podcasts for everything–news, journalism, interviews, entertainment as a whole. I was definitely a late adopter as I am with many media trends; a stubborn reluctance to compromise my morals and hold out hope for the return of sanctity in journalism. Yet many of these video podcasts have become cultural mainstays; a designated stop on any press tour, taking the time and space away from a celebrity’s chance to speak with a more interesting or qualified journalist. It’s marketing: these Youtube pods reach a larger audience, there is the possibility for viral TikTok clips, you get the idea. But is a bigger audience always a better audience? My gut says hell no, especially when it comes to someone like Chappell Roan, who has already dealt with a ton of backlash from people who are hellbent on misunderstanding her.

Not all video podcasts are influencer-led engagement bait, and there are some I really enjoy, like the Sad Boyz podcast hosted by Jordan Adika and Jarvis Johnson, which offers a lot of interesting and empathetic conversations about mental health and culture, with a healthy dose of dunking on the Andrew Tates of the world². Then my favorite band, MUNA, switched their Gayotic podcast to video and I never wanted to just listen again. Both of these are a bit more disjointed than some other podcasts, but in a way that really works for me; and because the hosts of each respective podcast are curious and creative people, they ask good questions when they have guests. One of my more recent favorites is Mal Glowenke and Mathilde Jourdan’s Made It Out, where Mal interviews queer people in the public eye, mainly lesbians, about different topics, all handled with care (and research!), resulting in emotional and educational conversations.

And then there have been other podcasts I tuned into that I ended up getting tired of quickly because the hosts lacked storytelling skills and an inquisitive nature. All shade: if the content of your weekly podcast relies on you sourcing “stories and questions” from fans/listeners, you lack creativity and talent.

I would have loved to see Chappell Roan on MUNA’s podcast for a myriad of reasons–musicians interviewing musicians, lesbians interviewing lesbians, to name a couple. For the latter reason, I’d also have loved to see her on Made It Out. But no–she was on Call Her Daddy. And before that, she was on another influencer’s podcast, and it was similarly not great!³ The top comment discussing that podcast on Reddit points out the big issue with these influencer-led podcasts: they tend to make it about themselves, because they don’t know how to do anything else.

Still, despite the initial positive reaction, it was only a matter of time before the interview was mined for rage-bait, which people found in a comment Chappell made about her friends who are mothers being “in hell.” I didn’t think the comment was off-color; I think most people I know who are new mothers would agree that it’s an exhausting experience. Chappell also clarified that they’re in hell because they love their children, implying that their dedication to being good parents is what makes motherhood difficult.

But that didn’t matter, as context never does in these situations. This is just what people do now!

In fact, a similar situation unfolded recently with another video podcaster, also on the topic of motherhood (and queer relationships!) when an influencer couple posted an episode about breaking up. I hope you’re ready for some niche lesbian drama.

Famed lesbian Youtuber (and ok, podcaster and photographer) Shannon Beveridge was dating influencer (and podcaster) Becca Moore, who went viral a few years ago when she shared a story online about her Uber driver helping her when her wallet got stolen at Coachella, going on to use her platform to raise funds for the driver’s daughter’s cancer treatments. It was Becca’s first queer relationship and when the couple made their breakup announcement video on Becca’s podcast, they blamed it on Becca’s naivety about starting a family together someday, both because of their age difference (she’s 6 years younger than Shannon) and because she hadn’t considered that genetically, they could not have a baby together.

Last week, Becca posted a new podcast episode claiming that the excuse they gave in the breakup episode was really a scapegoat for larger problems within their relationship and that she had felt taken advantage of. She also talked about the backlash she received after the breakup episode was released, with strangers online projecting onto her in the form of queer couples posting their children and saying “Becca Moore hates our baby,” and other weird things along those lines that were blatantly untrue.

Motherhood is a personal experience that some people think is universal. Social media’s recent obsession with categorizing yourself into tiny little identities without nuance makes this phenomenon worse. There are ways in which this concept is explored with empathy, specifically pertaining to motherhood, that are handled well-like in Win or Lose. But for the most part, people online exist in echo chambers and have become masters at manipulating words to fit whatever narrative they want them to, usually in an attempt to make themselves angry. Psychologically, I’d say it’s about control, as most things are, but in any case, it’s fucking stupid.

Youtuber Eddy Burback recently uploaded a video about living without his smartphone for a month, which helped him come to a lot of conclusions about the internet, but one that stood out to me was how going offline shaped his experiences as a TV viewer. He pointed out that with shows like the White Lotus, people enjoy discussing fan theories online, but that they also tend to get really angry with people who post theories or opinions that aren’t similar to their own. Why do we want to control what other people think about anything, let alone a TV show? Obviously, there are more reasons to take comments about motherhood, conception, and queer relationships personally, but also, if people are determined to make themselves angry over fan theories for a TV show, of course they’re equipped to run a hate campaign for someone who has a differing opinion on motherhood.

It’s frustrating as a freelance journalist and as a music lover to watch influencers not only get afforded the opportunities to interview artists but make so much more money off of it than I ever would if I was even lucky enough to be granted that opportunity. But this isn’t even about me being bitter about the state of media for my own personal reasons, it’s about me being bitter about the state of media for our culture at large.

From a marketing standpoint, I am not stupid–I get why Chappell did this podcast and I know that there is certainly a portion of her fanbase that will enjoy her regaling stories about her high school ex-boyfriend, making her relatable to them. Chappell doesn’t try to be relatable, she just is because she’s an honest person and she’s never minced words about her upbringing and how she has conservative family members who she loves⁴. Relatability in general has become a hot topic in cultural criticism, and who it benefits.

There has been a marked shift in culture politically, making most places on the internet feel a lot like 2016 again: defined by posts full of worry about human rights, arguments with right wingers, and heartfelt missives about supporting marginalized communities. What’s changed between then and now is that a lot of people, but more than that, a lot of companies, brands and corporations have dropped their activism and allyship and traded it in for trying to appease consumers from all sides. But that doesn’t work! There is no appeasing a group of people who find their community in hating others. So putting a queer artist in front of those people in an attempt to show relatability and expand her audience (which lets be honest, she totally doesn’t need to do) backfired, as expected.

Getting an email that listed a call for pitches about Chappell’s comment felt like a twist of a knife in my back, a perfect encapsulation on the bleak state of journalism. The callout was blatantly asking for angry opinions, taking the comment out of context to contribute to the vitriol that has been showered on Chappell online since the interview came out, phrased as: “any thoughts on chappell roan's interview where she says she doesn't know anyone happy who has had children? that the light has gone from their eyes?”

So as a writer, I am not in the position to interview Chappell and ask meaningful questions, but I can be commissioned to write an essay on how much I hate her for saying motherhood is exhausting. Got it!

Because of how unalike Alex Cooper and Chappell Roan are, there wasn’t really any part of the conversation that could have been about something more meaningful or important to Chappell, like trans rights. The biggest mention of anything similar was Chappell saying that she didn’t know if she would be allowed to marry her partner in the future. But the CHD audience didn’t care about that sound bite, because they don’t care about gay marriage.

Back to the marketing standpoint–did she really benefit from this interview? I’d have to say no. And I honestly have a bone to pick with whatever member of her team thought it was a good idea. It bums me out as a fan to think of Chappell taking this as yet another experience where she’ll walk away thinking, I opened my mouth and got in trouble.

I mean, why the fuck is FOX NEWS talking about her comments on motherhood?

To quote Chappell herself, “Labels, we got you, but do you got us?”

Music marketing teams and labels: Stop putting your precious pop stars in precarious positions!

1. I like Zane Lowe too, but I recently discovered that he was kind of born into his radio career which was disheartening to learn!

2. Genuinely cannot understate how much their content gives me hope for swaying and educating misinformed kids going down the incel path online.

3. Recently, I saw a clip of this influencer saying that she’s been asked if she’s nervous to interview celebrities on the red carpet and she said no–well, maybe she should be! Bring back shame!!!

4. Sydney Sweeney, take notes.